Elementalist In Character Creation

After Hugh and I discussed this, I did some reading on things like Affinity with <art/ability>, Elemental Magic, Secondary Insight, and Study Bonus. I also re-read the character creation section and the Darius of Flambeau example. There may be other Virtues/Flaws that are applicable, but the only one I looked at that mentioned it had an impact during character creation was Affinity with <art/ability>. I do think one way around this is to grind through character creation the long way, i.e. running off seasons, determining what resources are available, etc. Then it would be like applying game experience - but a lot more work.

I happen to be on the (unofficial) Red Cap FAQ and ran across this:
[Start quote]
Do Virtues that affect the way a character gains experience points - Wealthy, Secondary Insight, Elementalist, and so on - affect starting experience points?

Wealthy affects the starting experience points for a character as noted on p. 31 under "Later Life." Note that magi are not allowed to take the Wealthy Virtue according to the Virtue's description.

As to the other Virtues, David Chart posted this explanation to the Berkeley mailing list:

"This is the problem, and the reason why those Virtues don't affect normal character generation.

If you want the benefit, use Ridiculously Detailed And Obscenely Slow Character Generation -- run your apprentice through all fifteen years of apprenticeship. That way you have enough information to apply the Virtues."

Without knowing exactly what your character was studying at each season of apprenticeship and from what source, there is really no way to know how many bonus experience points should be applied.
[End quote]

Which is the same conclusion I came to reading through the rules.

Sorry I didn't clearly state my position. I think no EP during basic character creation unless the player users the long character generation method. This method would need to include some agreement on the resources available to the character during training.

If I recall correctly, you get 30 EP to apply for each year after the Gauntlet, so managing the "after apprentice" benefits are easy enough and I think should be applied.

Having never tried the longer method of character generation, I have no idea how the character turns out in comparison to the standard quick method.

It sounds like we're getting close to a consensus or failing that a majority for "Spend X Get Y". So how would that work in practice?

Say I spend a total of 100 points (for a nice round number) on elements in character creation. Say at 5 in = 1 out would I then get another 20 points to assign as I wish? Or divided equally between the four elements (in this specific example)?

And what should that ratio be? I think that 5-1 is a decent middle ground as in practice if you assign less than that in one form you get one point in the other three but it's still a decent benefit.

What do you think?

Yes, I mean during all aspects of character creation (specifically applying to the apprenticeship portion). One could allow for everything up to the time after the gauntlet, and handle that separately (since it is a small time to run off), but I think that makes things more complex.

I agree that 5 to 1 in relevant arts seems good to me.

I wouldn't have a problem with it being retroactive but we have three in favor of it, one "no" and two not voting so we need to talk to Kris and Margo before doing anything.