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Are Lab Texts Books?

So on page 32: "A character with a Latin score of less than 5 cannot write books, which may also be important." On page 71 Under Resources: Libraries Lab Texts are listed as probable components of libraries. On page 101 and 102 we get to the meat of the Lab Texts and, as one might expect, definitions are lacking! On page 223 it states: "All laboratory activities now use the Lab Total. All Lab Texts use the same rules, and learning spells from texts is now a matter of inventing them based on a Lab Text." All of which taken together make me think that anyone can create their own Lab Text per the rules on 101-102 but the changing of them into texts that anyone can use would "make them a book" and would thus require a Latin of 5 to do.

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Kevin Says:

Reply #13 on : Fri April 30, 2010, 00:39:26

Hugh,

I've looked this over and am convinced that lab texts are not books. On p71 it states that there are "two types [of books]": summae and tractatus. Furthermore, I do not believe there is a minimum score of Latin required to write laboratory texts, as long as you have a Latin score.

Also, based on the descriptions on 101-2 and 165, books are knowledge on "topics" or subjects, not used for learning spells (last phrase - my words).

Note that there is a minimum score of 4 in the language a book is written in to study from it. However, I find no such restriction for lab texts.

In my mind a book is used to learn a subject and requires a certain mastery of language, a lab text is an instruction manual on inventing a spell. The difference between studying a law book because you're a law student and baking a cake from a recipe when you already know your way around the kitchen.

KT

Paul Says:

Reply #12 on : Fri April 30, 2010, 06:19:39

If a lab text is not a book, it is never a book would be my take. So, since they are "how one invents spells", I would see them as not books, and making one of your own available to another would still not make it a book. Just my 2 bits.

Paul Says:

Reply #11 on : Fri April 30, 2010, 06:24:18

So I would gather that the requirement of a "4" means that a character with a lesser score could not study summae and tractatii?

Hugh Says:

Reply #10 on : Fri April 30, 2010, 06:45:43

What is the distinction you're drawing between these types of Hermetic, lets call them "writings" to be inclusive:

Summae
Tractatus
Lab Text

I disagree that they are unrelated, a spell is knowledge on a "topic" or subject just as much as as any of the others. And does the common phrase "spell book" ring any bells? How is a compendium of how to learn spell(s) not a book?

My opinion is that, yes, you need a 4 to learn from any of the above and 5 to create any of the above.

Hugh Says:

Reply #9 on : Fri April 30, 2010, 06:46:10

And why can't I get any formatting to appear in the new topic posts?

Paul Says:

Reply #8 on : Fri April 30, 2010, 06:55:35

So, do you believe, also, that you cannot invent spells without a 5 in latin, since a lab text is created when you invent a spell?

As to the no formatting - whiner! ;-)

Paul Says:

Reply #7 on : Fri April 30, 2010, 07:01:37

As to the distinctions, I believe Lab Texts are a thrown in (and poorly thought out) attempt to make the magic system "more consistent". I do not believe the designers thought it all the way through, and we see the result of that in this discussion.

Additionally, lab texts have two versions: "shorthand" and "accessible". Other book types (summa, tractatus) do not. A lab text covers a very small arena, summae and tractatii cover much larger arenas (the specific versus the general).

For those reasons I see the texts as different beasts.

And if you want formatting here, write your own web-site! ;-)

Hugh Says:

Reply #6 on : Fri April 30, 2010, 11:05:39

I'm inclined to agree with your analysis, why have one rule (writings = writings = writings) when three will do just as well?

I'd rather have one rule, from which you can tell I had nothing to do with the creation of these rules!

Tony Says:

Reply #5 on : Fri April 30, 2010, 11:06:40

Reference page 105 in the core rules for further discourse on Books. In this section is states you need to be fluent (4) in the language to study from the book. This section further indicates that there are only two types of books, Summae and Tractatus. On the same page, the section for Writing Books only creates rules for Summae and Tractatus. I understand the rules designers have screwed the pooch many times, but maybe not on this topic.

There are numerous mage examples listed in the core rules book, and almost all of them have Latin-4 skill. If it were a requirement to invent spells and write your lab texts with a skill of 5, then this would be a big deal and should show up in character examples or even explicitly in the rules.

Perhaps this is an argument of the negative. In this case I give the designers more credit and believe that the language requirements are only for Summae and Tractatus, and then only to write and study.

Kevin Says:

Reply #4 on : Fri April 30, 2010, 17:30:02

Giving the designers credit, I think if you want rules around using books, but still let any magus invent spells - this is how it needs to work.

Are we in general agreement (at least for those who have responded) that:
1) Latin is not required to write a Hermetic lab text (but note that you need a Latin of 1 to be a Hermetic magus)

2) Latin of 4 is required to study from summae and tractatus

3) Latin of 5 is required to write summae and tractaus

4) Lab texts are not books

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